...for His glory, by our joy.
Here are some verses to consider as we continue to ask the question this coming weekend,
“Is it possible that God would allow his church to go through the Great Tribulation?”
Joh 16:33 "These things I have spoken to you, so that IN ME you may have peace.
In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
(This may or may not include the “Great Tribulation”, none the less God allows his people to suffer for him)
Joh 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
(It is our souls, not necessarily our bodies, that God is concerned with)
Mt 23:34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
Hebrews 11:35 b (People who lived by faith) were tortured, refusing to turn from God in order to be set free. They placed their hope in a better life after the resurrection. 36 Some were jeered at, and their backs were cut open with whips. Others were chained in prisons. 37 Some died by stoning, some were sawed in half, and others were killed with the sword. Some went about wearing skins of sheep and goats, destitute and oppressed and mistreated. 38 They were too good for this world, wandering over deserts and mountains, hiding in caves and holes in the ground. 39 All these people earned a good reputation because of their faith,
Re 13:17 so that no-one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Mark 13:19 because those will be days of distress unequalled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again. 20 If the Lord had not cut short those days, no-one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.
Revelation 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes— who are they, and where did they come from?" 14 I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore, "they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them. 16 Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat.
Both Pre-Tribulation Rapture speculators (like Reg Sr.) and Post or Mid-Tribulation speculators like myself (Andy) believe that Holy-Spirit filled Christians will go through “The Great Tribulation”
The question is this: Will these people be members of the church or will the church have been caught up and these new saints scattered around the world, left to suffer persecution that the rest of us have been spared?
And if we can’t be certain of that answer, should we not be at least prepared to suffer along with the tribulation saints as one of them? Can we draw a distinctive line between church and tribulation-saints and if we think we can, what if we are wrong?
Consider the freedom of being prepared to die for Christ and know that it is only by the development of this component of faith that you are truly free to live for him.
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6 comments:
The NEWEST Pretrib Calendar
Hal (serial polygamist) Lindsey and other pretrib-rapture-trafficking and Mayan-Calendar-hugging hucksters deserve the following message: "2012 may be YOUR latest date. It isn't MAYAN!" Actually, if it weren't for the 179-year-old, fringe-British-invented, American-merchandised pretribulation rapture bunco scheme, Hal might still be piloting a tugboat on the Mississippi, roly-poly Thomas Ice (Tim LaHaye's No. 1 strong-arm enforcer) might still be in his tiny folding-chair church which shares its firewall with a Texas saloon, Jack Van Impe might still be a jazz band musician, Tim LaHaye might still be titillating California matrons with his "Christian" sex manual, Grant Jeffrey might still be taking care of figures up in Canada, Chuck Missler might still be in mysterious hush-hush stuff that rocket scientists don't dare talk about, John Hagee might be making - and eating - world-record pizzas, and Jimmy ("Bye You" Rapture) Swaggart might still be flying on a Ferriday flatbed! To read more details about the eschatological British import that leading British scholarship never adopted - the import that's created some American multi-millionaires - Google "Pretrib Rapture Diehards" (note LaHaye's hypocrisy under "1992"), "Hal Lindsey's Many Divorces," "Thomas Ice (Bloopers)" and "Thomas Ice (Hired Gun)," "LaHaye's Temperament," "Wily Jeffrey," "Chuck Missler - Copyist," "Open Letter to Todd Strandberg" and "The Rapture Index (Mad Theology)," "X-Raying Margaret," "Humbug Huebner," "Thieves' Marketing," "Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal," "The Unoriginal John Darby," "Pretrib Hypocrisy," "The Real Manuel Lacunza," "Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism," "America's Pretrib Rapture Traffickers," "Pretrib Rapture - Hidden Facts," "Dolcino? Duh!" and "Scholars Weigh My Research." Most of the above is written by journalist/historian Dave MacPherson who has focused on long-hidden pretrib rapture history for 35+ years. No one else has focused on it for 35 months or even 35 weeks. MacPherson has been a frequent radio talk show guest and he states that all of his royalties have always gone to a nonprofit group and not to any individual. His No. 1 book on all this is "The Rapture Plot" (see Armageddon Books online, etc.). The amazing thing is how long it has taken the mainstream media to finally notice and expose this unbelievably groundless yet extremely lucrative theological hoax!
I wonder what royalties John made from writing Revelation.
Probably enough to retire on some island.
anonymous...
What do you really think about pretribulation teachers/preachers? It's surprising that you've not included that money-grabbing, psuedo-theologian, hoax-filled author John MacArthur Jr.
Php 1:18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice,
1st Question:
“Is it possible that God would allow his church to go through the Great Tribulation?”
The simple answer is that God can do what He wants. Is it possible that He would? Perhaps. Is it possible that He won't, why not?
Is the tribulation for the Christian? Daniel states that it's for the nation of Israel. Will there be others? There will also be unbelieving Gentiles and subsequently many others who will be saved.
2nd Question:
"Will these people be members of the church or will the church have been caught up and these new saints scattered around the world, left to suffer persecution that the rest of us have been spared"?
There is no doubt that multitudes will be saved during the time of tribulation and many, if not the majority, will be martyred (Rev.20:4). Would it be possible for these salvations to occur even though the church may have been "raptured" before the tribulation? Why can't both occur?
Being spared from the suffering and persecution that is evident in the tribulation isn't something that should be considered improbable for "the church." Why would it be necessary for "the church" to suffer just because others will or may suffer?
Yes, we can draw a distictive line between church and tribulation saints just as we can between old testament saints and the church.
What if we are wrong? That question can be applied to pretty much every aspect of Christian theology. What if we are wrong about Christ's deity, His humanity, salvation, heaven, hell...the list goes on.
Being prepared to die for Christ is something that all Christians should be willing to do. It is not a reason why it is necessary that the church should go through the tribulation.
To me then, the obvious question becomes: Were there any OT saints who crossed the line and became NT saints? The obvious answer is, Yes. Mary the Mother of Jesus being a prime example. So then if this dispensational line is crossable, the line itself, between church-age and tribulation, it would seem, would not make it impossible for a church-saint to become a tribulation saint.
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